Professional players comment on the latest Quake Champions patch
Vea once again spoke to some of the pros in the Quake Champions scene, this time discussing the the latest patch as well as gathering their thoughts about future patches.
What are your first thoughts about the newest patch?
Spart1e: Personally I like the new patch. With everyone being slower its harder to dodge, easier to aim. This means that if you are making a bad move or are out of position you will be punished for it. I bet QL duel PROs will like this. What happened so far in QC duel is that position didn’t mean much at all yet, people just came rushing in with speed and its all been about combat/movement skills. I like this change big time because in the end it benefits smart plays, that I think Quake Duel should be about, and not just raw combat skills. On the other hand I believe its harder for new/less good players just because they will be punished for their mistakes in their games.
d3th: Movement:Initially, I shared a lot of the concerns with general feedback on movement. However, after playing more and testing all the champions, the movement system feels more balanced across the board. There is more champion variety in all the game modes, and while it felt slow and sluggish at first, I have been able to adjust. Starter Weapons: Stronger than most of us are used to. I am not convinced that QC should go this route but we should continue to keep a close eye on how this impacts gameplay in general. Champion Balance: Probably the best it’s been since launch. However, Clutch is still ridiculously strong in Duel and Anarki is still too high risk to play in the current ruleset.
k1llsen: Quake got slow compared to what quake really was - the feeling itself is still faster cause there is more dynamic in the movement itself with aircontrol - dash. Clutch got buffed because everyone's movement speed got lowered and Clutch is the only one with shield - full stack - 0.1 seconds up to 900 ups if done correctly.
Xron: I like ranked 2v2 and instagib and I hope they gonna focus more on team and fun modes. Movement changes I personally like, cause you need to show some strafe skills to gain same speed as in previous patch but its really rewarding for players with good movement. HMG feels overpowered but I think it's ok considering every weapon can melt opponent right now.
RAISY: My first thoughts on the newest patch is that instead of fixing what truly needed to be fixed, they just changed things, but the game is still pretty much the same. What I mean by that is that the champions are still unbalanced, the weapons are still unbalanced, the game is still random, much less skill based than previous Quakes. Hit detection and the delay between it or between using ability and the server recognizing it is still not in sync. Going through teleports on your screen but still having your corpse before it is still a thing. You are being chased by LG and getting hit, yet on your screen your opponent's LG doesn’t reach you, and meanwhile you try to LG back but yours doesn’t connect is still a thing as well. The maps are not made well for movement, for example: stairs and slopes are a nightmare to use, ledges sometimes bump you or make you stuck, and so are the rumbles on the floor. Then of course there is the Eyeball on Ruins of Sarnath or the statue on Corrupted Keep which are just horrible to move on, and the rocket splash damage on those kinds of places are just unpredictable. I see why they slowed down the speed of the champions, but now dodging is barely a thing, unless you have something to hide behind.
Clutch is still not adjusted for the game, meanwhile some other champions are just plain worthless to pick. The machinegun is a bit too strong, and the nail gun is ridiculously OP. The starting shotgun's fire rate is too high, and the SuperSG's spread is too much. Gauntlet through Clutch's shield makes no sense. Standing directly on Mega/Heavy/Quad/Protection and still not picking it up just because you are not moving, yet meanwhile someone else who is next to it picks it up is frustrating to say the least. It's great that there is ranked TDM, but why not prevent allowing the same champions on the same team like in Sacrifice Tourney? The map pool is not for Ranked TDM, why would anyone want to play a hide and seek 2vs2 on Church? Or a nonsense totem fest on Lockbox? I get that most of the things I mentioned has something to do with the game's engine and that 'It's hard to adjust', but the player base is suffering from its faults for a long time now.
strenx: There is progress from what I've tried, but I do think that the ideas of champions is good, but this concept doesn't work in duel. They should definitely work on teamgames with this concept. CTF or maybe 2v2 but i'm not really sure of this 2v2. Duel needs to stay classic. Champions are made to make a meta, they are made to counter a certain team. If you try to do champions on 1v1, it will always stay the same over and over, and make the game boring. It just make the game slower than it is and boring. Quake champions isn't quake, it is a semi fast fps game, but definitely not quake, so we have (I have) to accept that it's a different game, but I will never say that it's a different quake because Quake is always the same. You do not change everything and call it quake still. Especially when those are not the best editors - and they try to make one of the best game ever made in history.
What should Bethesda focus on for future patches?
Spart1e: I hate that there is some kind of delay on everything in the game. All this prediction stuff is just frustrating for all. For example: You enter a teleport and see yourself coming out on other side, but then you teleport back and are dead on other side, this is just one of hundred+ things people getting frustrated about and might even stop playing the game because of it. Improve the core physics of the game. If the basics of QC aint good, will CTF make QC great? I doubt it. CTF will still be fun, as long as they have good maps for it tho. So I would say make the physics closer to what made Quake3/Live great, and good maps.
d3th: Generally speaking, I think the focus of the development team has been spot on. That being said my top 5 would be as follows:
k1llsen: We need some sort of a balance - we are stuck in duel with OP clutch since 3 months already, this unbalance really has to be corrected right after it's clear that something went wrong.
Xron: First of all just fix all bugs, optimization problems etc., I don’t feel like balance is top priority, first need to fix all problems, so game can look attractive for new players, then can think about balancing things. Also I wish they will focus on one big teammode (imo it should be sacrifice or tdm 4v4 or 5v5) cause it can attract new players and most of players want to play with friends and have fun. Teammode can make champions shine in the right way, combine abilities together and so on. I don’t think duel can have any success and I don’t think it can bring any fresh blood, it’s never fun to play campy style and duel always favoring that.
RAISY: It's nice that there are always cute new skins and shaders and all that, but what's the point of them if you keep unlocking duplicates? Even runes can be duplicates. I've been actively playing the game well before runes became a thing, yet I still don't have them all unlocked, (which is great I guess, it keeps the player busy,) but it's just annoying that when I unlock a rune, it's a duplicate. Same goes for lore scrolls (just because I didn't farm them back when it was possible), besides the duplicate part of course. And yes, I know it's not the focus of the game, but the system needs a little adjustment there as well. Something else, that is more important than skins and runes: being able to call for pause during duel, or the ability to reconnect. My problem is that sometimes I have some 30 seconds to 1-minute long internet hiccup, and by the time its finally back, I get a loss undeservingly, without the chance to reconnect and continue. Especially angering when it happens during ranked.
P.S. An idea that (in my opinion) would make instagib better: allowing abilities is fine, but how about forcing a random champion for everyone for that game? Everyone would have the same chance, and it'd make the players be more versatile. (I know not everyone has every champion unlocked, but it would be only for this game mode.)
strenx: As I said I did not play that much but it seems that it's a lot slower than it was, I think it's not fast, it's not slow either, I feel like it's a semi fast-fps, you can't really dodge. I do feel progress though, it looks like there are few people working on it, I might be very mean to them but I will just say that I don't know what happens in their office. I will just say, good luck and try your best. I do not think quake will suceed in 2018 though, it will take time, they shouldn't rush. They should focus on making the game good, and not trying to put events and events on a game that is bugged in term of netcode, moves, unbalanced champ. They should try stuff, classic mod, ctf, and see what works. Don’t do the mistake of putting money cause you already see what happened at Qcon, I feel bad for the investors.
Players' social media links:
@Spart1e, @d3th, @K1llsen, @Xron, @Raisy, @strenx
Author's social media links:
vvea, @Just_Vea
What are your first thoughts about the newest patch?
Spart1e: Personally I like the new patch. With everyone being slower its harder to dodge, easier to aim. This means that if you are making a bad move or are out of position you will be punished for it. I bet QL duel PROs will like this. What happened so far in QC duel is that position didn’t mean much at all yet, people just came rushing in with speed and its all been about combat/movement skills. I like this change big time because in the end it benefits smart plays, that I think Quake Duel should be about, and not just raw combat skills. On the other hand I believe its harder for new/less good players just because they will be punished for their mistakes in their games.
d3th: Movement:Initially, I shared a lot of the concerns with general feedback on movement. However, after playing more and testing all the champions, the movement system feels more balanced across the board. There is more champion variety in all the game modes, and while it felt slow and sluggish at first, I have been able to adjust. Starter Weapons: Stronger than most of us are used to. I am not convinced that QC should go this route but we should continue to keep a close eye on how this impacts gameplay in general. Champion Balance: Probably the best it’s been since launch. However, Clutch is still ridiculously strong in Duel and Anarki is still too high risk to play in the current ruleset.
k1llsen: Quake got slow compared to what quake really was - the feeling itself is still faster cause there is more dynamic in the movement itself with aircontrol - dash. Clutch got buffed because everyone's movement speed got lowered and Clutch is the only one with shield - full stack - 0.1 seconds up to 900 ups if done correctly.
Xron: I like ranked 2v2 and instagib and I hope they gonna focus more on team and fun modes. Movement changes I personally like, cause you need to show some strafe skills to gain same speed as in previous patch but its really rewarding for players with good movement. HMG feels overpowered but I think it's ok considering every weapon can melt opponent right now.
RAISY: My first thoughts on the newest patch is that instead of fixing what truly needed to be fixed, they just changed things, but the game is still pretty much the same. What I mean by that is that the champions are still unbalanced, the weapons are still unbalanced, the game is still random, much less skill based than previous Quakes. Hit detection and the delay between it or between using ability and the server recognizing it is still not in sync. Going through teleports on your screen but still having your corpse before it is still a thing. You are being chased by LG and getting hit, yet on your screen your opponent's LG doesn’t reach you, and meanwhile you try to LG back but yours doesn’t connect is still a thing as well. The maps are not made well for movement, for example: stairs and slopes are a nightmare to use, ledges sometimes bump you or make you stuck, and so are the rumbles on the floor. Then of course there is the Eyeball on Ruins of Sarnath or the statue on Corrupted Keep which are just horrible to move on, and the rocket splash damage on those kinds of places are just unpredictable. I see why they slowed down the speed of the champions, but now dodging is barely a thing, unless you have something to hide behind.
Clutch is still not adjusted for the game, meanwhile some other champions are just plain worthless to pick. The machinegun is a bit too strong, and the nail gun is ridiculously OP. The starting shotgun's fire rate is too high, and the SuperSG's spread is too much. Gauntlet through Clutch's shield makes no sense. Standing directly on Mega/Heavy/Quad/Protection and still not picking it up just because you are not moving, yet meanwhile someone else who is next to it picks it up is frustrating to say the least. It's great that there is ranked TDM, but why not prevent allowing the same champions on the same team like in Sacrifice Tourney? The map pool is not for Ranked TDM, why would anyone want to play a hide and seek 2vs2 on Church? Or a nonsense totem fest on Lockbox? I get that most of the things I mentioned has something to do with the game's engine and that 'It's hard to adjust', but the player base is suffering from its faults for a long time now.
strenx: There is progress from what I've tried, but I do think that the ideas of champions is good, but this concept doesn't work in duel. They should definitely work on teamgames with this concept. CTF or maybe 2v2 but i'm not really sure of this 2v2. Duel needs to stay classic. Champions are made to make a meta, they are made to counter a certain team. If you try to do champions on 1v1, it will always stay the same over and over, and make the game boring. It just make the game slower than it is and boring. Quake champions isn't quake, it is a semi fast fps game, but definitely not quake, so we have (I have) to accept that it's a different game, but I will never say that it's a different quake because Quake is always the same. You do not change everything and call it quake still. Especially when those are not the best editors - and they try to make one of the best game ever made in history.
What should Bethesda focus on for future patches?
Spart1e: I hate that there is some kind of delay on everything in the game. All this prediction stuff is just frustrating for all. For example: You enter a teleport and see yourself coming out on other side, but then you teleport back and are dead on other side, this is just one of hundred+ things people getting frustrated about and might even stop playing the game because of it. Improve the core physics of the game. If the basics of QC aint good, will CTF make QC great? I doubt it. CTF will still be fun, as long as they have good maps for it tho. So I would say make the physics closer to what made Quake3/Live great, and good maps.
d3th: Generally speaking, I think the focus of the development team has been spot on. That being said my top 5 would be as follows:
- Team oriented game mode which can draw and hold new players: Round based with an objective. Something like capture strike may work well (hybrid between CTF and CA).
- Address the inconsistent server performance issues: Some data centers perform fine. Others do not perform well at all. Servers appear to be overloaded at times, and may be contributing to the weird desync issues we’ve seen.
- Robust spectator and referee tools: I fear that CTF will suffer from the same issues that Sacrifice had in terms of spectator friendliness. Production teams need to have tools available to be able to provide the best experience possible for viewers. Some ideas:
- Custom saved cameras: Ability to assign saved cameras to key binds so that in-game specs can quickly switch cameras with a key press.
- Higher UPS when in spectator: In game spectators should be able to adjust their UPS to a faster speed to traverse the map.
- 3rd person objective cameras: This would allow the in-game spectator (and ultimately the twitch viewer) to see the action happening around the objective being followed, be it an Obelisk, Soul or Flag.
- Pause match: No brainer here. We should be able to pause matches for disconnects or crashes.
- Continue optimizing the client.
- Continue balancing the champions.
k1llsen: We need some sort of a balance - we are stuck in duel with OP clutch since 3 months already, this unbalance really has to be corrected right after it's clear that something went wrong.
Xron: First of all just fix all bugs, optimization problems etc., I don’t feel like balance is top priority, first need to fix all problems, so game can look attractive for new players, then can think about balancing things. Also I wish they will focus on one big teammode (imo it should be sacrifice or tdm 4v4 or 5v5) cause it can attract new players and most of players want to play with friends and have fun. Teammode can make champions shine in the right way, combine abilities together and so on. I don’t think duel can have any success and I don’t think it can bring any fresh blood, it’s never fun to play campy style and duel always favoring that.
RAISY: It's nice that there are always cute new skins and shaders and all that, but what's the point of them if you keep unlocking duplicates? Even runes can be duplicates. I've been actively playing the game well before runes became a thing, yet I still don't have them all unlocked, (which is great I guess, it keeps the player busy,) but it's just annoying that when I unlock a rune, it's a duplicate. Same goes for lore scrolls (just because I didn't farm them back when it was possible), besides the duplicate part of course. And yes, I know it's not the focus of the game, but the system needs a little adjustment there as well. Something else, that is more important than skins and runes: being able to call for pause during duel, or the ability to reconnect. My problem is that sometimes I have some 30 seconds to 1-minute long internet hiccup, and by the time its finally back, I get a loss undeservingly, without the chance to reconnect and continue. Especially angering when it happens during ranked.
P.S. An idea that (in my opinion) would make instagib better: allowing abilities is fine, but how about forcing a random champion for everyone for that game? Everyone would have the same chance, and it'd make the players be more versatile. (I know not everyone has every champion unlocked, but it would be only for this game mode.)
strenx: As I said I did not play that much but it seems that it's a lot slower than it was, I think it's not fast, it's not slow either, I feel like it's a semi fast-fps, you can't really dodge. I do feel progress though, it looks like there are few people working on it, I might be very mean to them but I will just say that I don't know what happens in their office. I will just say, good luck and try your best. I do not think quake will suceed in 2018 though, it will take time, they shouldn't rush. They should focus on making the game good, and not trying to put events and events on a game that is bugged in term of netcode, moves, unbalanced champ. They should try stuff, classic mod, ctf, and see what works. Don’t do the mistake of putting money cause you already see what happened at Qcon, I feel bad for the investors.
Players' social media links:
@Spart1e, @d3th, @K1llsen, @Xron, @Raisy, @strenxAuthor's social media links:
vvea, @Just_Vea
Initially, the movement changes seemed to ruin the rhythm of some characters such as Anarki. Although after spending time in instagib and duels I began to appreciate the base movement speed along with the speed being uncapped. The player base has increased at all times, 1v1 ranked duels are easier to find, 2v2 ranked is a much-needed addition to ranked play. The no abilities mode have brought some Quake Live players along as well that did not dive into the game yet or had been waiting. Playing ESL Duel cups/ladder has been a better experience overall thanks to the hit registration, movement changes and a slowly growing player base that averages higher numbers every few days. Now we just need new maps to which can be designed without worry of specific character speed /speed caps.
just my take.
It was more fun as a casual and competitive player when both decision making and raw combat skill mattered, when neither side was taken light of (Like it was in Q1). It meant you could at times burn yourself with combat skills or in other times with smart play.. whatever works best against your opponent basically. It gets boring and stale if you're restricted to just one department all the time. Just like how combat is literally the only thing that matters in instagib; you burn out and get bored faster, then you have nothing to compensate if your skills in that one department is not enough. Although it's not to the same extent, that's more the less how I feel about the smart play that dominates QL meta.
No Rapha response?